Random thoughts from beyond middle age - as I wonder/wander through life.
Sunday, December 07, 2008
White man video
Not sure where it got the name, but this is the video Fran mentioned in a comment the other day: "White Man" by Michael Gungor. It is absolutely fantabulous.
I'm sure I'll be the only one to point out the irony that the theme is that God is above all our pettiness on this Earth, yet there is a definite political slant to this video. "Even old Pat Robertson" and singling out Republicans. I'm sure you probably didn't notice, but it shoots the message in the foot to say "God is above all this... EVEN..."
The last good opinion I heard on church and state was a Catholic priest on TV around election time. They asked him about it and he said "Our church will never embrace something as devisive as politics, we're about bring people together." Right on, whoever you were.
MR, I can see where you would feel this way but in the world of evangelical Christianity I believe this video is anything but politically slanted. The "political slant" is all the people who say a Christian MUST be a Republican. And there are many (Have you ever watched or listened to Pat Robertson??). So you are right - I do not see the irony here. The point IS that God is above all our pettiness, and that even if Pat Robertson is not always right (just like the rest of us), God still loves him.
You know, if I were sitting in my church and they started saying "Bush was right to go into Iraq, so pray for the world to understand him" or something like that I agreed with, I would still be creeped out by the political indoctrination. That's not why I would go to church. I'd be like "uh, I realize I'm not PAYING to be here, but can we get back to the issue of my salvation?!"
I don't even think they should use churchs for polling stations. I think that's just inviting the hijacking of the pulpit for activism.
And NO I don't watch Pat Robertson. Same goes for him.
I hate when entertainers start going off on their soap boxes. I wish I could go back in time and NOT buy their recordings, since I helped make them famous as artists only to find out they are actually running for office or something.
I think if you're clergy, be clergy, if your a politician, do that. But I think crossing over is a betrayal of the people who supported them for what they do best. Give Caesar what belongs... etc. etc.
I understand your fighting an internal battle at the office, but to anyone who thinks like me, it's apples and oranges.
So... everybody and their brother (who are NOT clergy) ought to be able to tell clergy how to do their job, but clergy should not have any say in anything besides church stuff?
I hear this all the time, actually.
As far as the political stuff... to say that I DON'T HAVE TO BE REPUBLICAN is a whole lot different than saying I DO HAVE TO BE Republican. I'm saying, and the video, that you CAN be Republican; but you can also be Democrat, or Green, or Independent, or even apolitical. God loves everybody - not ONLY Republicans. But I understand where you're coming from... it's probably like a fight at a football game. The referee usually only sees the response. Like on your blog - I only see what you write, not what precipitated it on Fox News. :)
But to take this a bit further... I think we see the role of faith differently (and you see it in a very common way, so I'm not saying YOU are different). One of the fundamental beliefs I hold as a pastor is that faith is not limited JUST to church stuff. Faith is about LIFE - all of life: political, work, home, relationships, recreation, everything. God did not come into the world to give us church, or "better" church. Jesus came that we might have LIFE (John 10:10). He came to teach us how to live.
So, while I can respect your view of religion (as a chainsaw salesman), I happen to hold a view that clergy are called to help people see how faith does, in fact, apply to all areas of life. Perhaps it would be similar to someone saying you should only talk about computers, and it should only be in the context of the work environment. When the reality is, computers have a role in every area of life (I mean chainsaws).
Besides, I hope you're not confusing my blog with being in a church service. If that's what this is, then it's about darn time we take up an offering.
Remember when we were talking about doctors and their bedside manner and how they need to be trained in dealing with people on an emotional level because of how they are seen? You were talking about how they stressed that... I think you said in seminary, that you are inherent to the image of the church and just like if the head of the federal reserve goes on TV and says "HP is some dangerous stock to own" he can tank them with words, so are your words interpreted differently from the average joe. Isn't the recognition of your influence on people the reason you called this blog Danno's "Dangerous" Mind?
Can't you teach life without referencing politics? Can't you break it down to the basic moral building blocks and teach those?
I wasn't gonna say anything, but we're well past the election here. And backing up a few postings, "yes, I think you should make another private blog (invitation only) for this stuff; again, because of the responsibility that goes with your influence, and go to town on that blog."
I can tell people I don't like Macs, and there's no chance they'll interpret as "God hates Macs".
Incidentally, hope you and Jane can make it to my Christmas party--we still cool, make no mistake. *I* hang out with MDH.
No offense to MR, but the video is simple: God loves everyone. Is it a statement in a corrective way toward those religious people who have implied that God is only for those in a certain political party, etc. Sure it is, because they're wrong. The video is just another little piece of the movement going on out there to reclaim Jesus from those who want to own him for their own agendas.
MR, I think we've both known for some time that we're about as different as two people can get (religiously, politically, and socially) and remain friends. None of that has changed.
Fran and I have been friends for quite some time. I think that's part of why he cares, and also the fact that the two of us have basically sacrificed everything else in our lives to help get the message of this video out - that God does love everyone.
I appreciate your concern, but I just don't think we're going to see eye-to-eye on this one.
I got the God loves everyone thing, never doubted it for a minute. But as a Republican, for someone to say "Republicans don't own God" as if ANYONE did, it's sort of a "have you stopped beating your wife" question. I've never thought I owned God, as a matter of fact, someone who thought they owned God would be ignorant--did this video just call me ignorant for being a Republican. If it did, it's incredibly shortsighted and petty, yet hides behind the "wisdom" that God loves everyone (big breakthrough there). So if you're looking to shape your congregation by political party, I think that's where you're headed with this kind of material. I think it excludes the kind of tolerance that makes people like us friends despite our diversity. Ostrasizing Republicans is as wrong as them telling you that you can't be a Democrat. IMHO. And that being said, on to things more amusing.
When I first saw the video, my first reaction was in line with MR and still is. We all can agree that God loves everyone without reservation. But my concern with the video was it appears one sided, maybe it would have been better received if it had "poked" at the other political parties, at the other presidents who have left us wondering...
I couldn't aggree more with the theme of the video, I just wish it was done with a more balanced approach. I kinda feel that Gungor got a political jab in.
Hey, I'm sorry if you guys (or anybody else for that matter) is offended by me posting this video on my blog. It was not my intention to offend anyone, anymore than it's probably ever your intention to offend me with some of the things you post on your blogs.
For the record, I have nothing - let me say it again: NOTHING - against Republicans. I am also NOT a Democrat. The only "party" I am a part of is the Way of Jesus - Christianity. However, I do have something against people who imply that to be a Christian one must be a member of a certain political party. At this point in history I don't believe there are too many who make that implication about any party EXCEPT the Republican party. Have you heard of the "Religious Right"?
Granted, the writer of this song may not have needed to mention Republicans. Then again, while you may not need to hear it, maybe there are some who still do.
I will say, I probably didn't even notice it because I for one get really tired of people giving me crap for not being patriotic enough, or for voting for a Democrat, or for thinking Capitalism itself is a rotten system.
Maybe someday this song won't make any sense at all. But during this election year, I think it's worth saying. Does it mean you're ignorant if you're a Republican? No. But it also doesn't mean you're a heathen for not being one. I think that's the only point of that one little piece of this song.
I don't know how long people have been saying "don't talk about religion and politics." So what do we do? Talk about both. It's like a powder keg in here just waiting for something to spark. :D
I see the message and the prejudice you're fighting, Dan, I just wanted to interject another viewpoint on religion and politics.
And I know you're not judgmental, that's why I didn't get it.
I finally watched the video to see what all of the fuss is about. :)
I have to agree with MR that there is a very obvious political slant to the video but I don't think that takes away from it's message. I think the song incorporates some very relevant issues to this election year. Not only does it point out that God loves Republicans but also lesbians, terrorists, presidents...all hot issues right now.
One thing I'm a bit frustrated with is how much i keep hearing abotu how God is not a Republican. I'm not saying this in response to this blog specifically but just in general. My generation is very quick to point out that God isn't a Republican in one breath and in the next breath say that they're going to vote for Obama (or voted, whatever). Without realizing it they are insinuating that God is a Democrat (to someone who doesn't know better, of course). I would not only like to see a more balanced approach to God and politics but I'd like to stop hearing people mention God and politics int he same sentence. Maybe that's not what I'm trying to say. I'm just tired of people trying to put God into a political box (again, not in reference to this blog spicifically).
Obviously, at one time Christianity was associated with being a Republican. That's more than the Democrats can say - whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is up to you to figure out. In my opinion, Christianity shouldn't have anything to do with being a Republican or a Democrat - it shoudl have to do with being a follower of Christ.
I've said this before but I'd be alright with doing away with the word Christian altogether as it stands in American culture right now. It throws up too many red flags. We need a new word - and yes, I can admit that eventually that word will throw up red flags as well. That's just the way the world works when it's full of fallen human beings I'm afraid.
Anyway, there's my two cents and as usual I probably didn't convey my point. I like the video and what it's trying to say because I think it needs to be said but I'd be alright with making it more balanced.
14 comments:
I'm sure I'll be the only one to point out the irony that the theme is that God is above all our pettiness on this Earth, yet there is a definite political slant to this video. "Even old Pat Robertson" and singling out Republicans. I'm sure you probably didn't notice, but it shoots the message in the foot to say "God is above all this... EVEN..."
The last good opinion I heard on church and state was a Catholic priest on TV around election time. They asked him about it and he said "Our church will never embrace something as devisive as politics, we're about bring people together." Right on, whoever you were.
MR,
I can see where you would feel this way but in the world of evangelical Christianity I believe this video is anything but politically slanted. The "political slant" is all the people who say a Christian MUST be a Republican. And there are many (Have you ever watched or listened to Pat Robertson??). So you are right - I do not see the irony here. The point IS that God is above all our pettiness, and that even if Pat Robertson is not always right (just like the rest of us), God still loves him.
You know, if I were sitting in my church and they started saying "Bush was right to go into Iraq, so pray for the world to understand him" or something like that I agreed with, I would still be creeped out by the political indoctrination. That's not why I would go to church. I'd be like "uh, I realize I'm not PAYING to be here, but can we get back to the issue of my salvation?!"
I don't even think they should use churchs for polling stations. I think that's just inviting the hijacking of the pulpit for activism.
And NO I don't watch Pat Robertson. Same goes for him.
I hate when entertainers start going off on their soap boxes. I wish I could go back in time and NOT buy their recordings, since I helped make them famous as artists only to find out they are actually running for office or something.
I think if you're clergy, be clergy, if your a politician, do that. But I think crossing over is a betrayal of the people who supported them for what they do best. Give Caesar what belongs... etc. etc.
I understand your fighting an internal battle at the office, but to anyone who thinks like me, it's apples and oranges.
So... everybody and their brother (who are NOT clergy) ought to be able to tell clergy how to do their job, but clergy should not have any say in anything besides church stuff?
I hear this all the time, actually.
As far as the political stuff... to say that I DON'T HAVE TO BE REPUBLICAN is a whole lot different than saying I DO HAVE TO BE Republican. I'm saying, and the video, that you CAN be Republican; but you can also be Democrat, or Green, or Independent, or even apolitical. God loves everybody - not ONLY Republicans. But I understand where you're coming from... it's probably like a fight at a football game. The referee usually only sees the response. Like on your blog - I only see what you write, not what precipitated it on Fox News. :)
But to take this a bit further... I think we see the role of faith differently (and you see it in a very common way, so I'm not saying YOU are different). One of the fundamental beliefs I hold as a pastor is that faith is not limited JUST to church stuff. Faith is about LIFE - all of life: political, work, home, relationships, recreation, everything. God did not come into the world to give us church, or "better" church. Jesus came that we might have LIFE (John 10:10). He came to teach us how to live.
So, while I can respect your view of religion (as a chainsaw salesman), I happen to hold a view that clergy are called to help people see how faith does, in fact, apply to all areas of life. Perhaps it would be similar to someone saying you should only talk about computers, and it should only be in the context of the work environment. When the reality is, computers have a role in every area of life (I mean chainsaws).
Besides, I hope you're not confusing my blog with being in a church service. If that's what this is, then it's about darn time we take up an offering.
Remember when we were talking about doctors and their bedside manner and how they need to be trained in dealing with people on an emotional level because of how they are seen? You were talking about how they stressed that... I think you said in seminary, that you are inherent to the image of the church and just like if the head of the federal reserve goes on TV and says "HP is some dangerous stock to own" he can tank them with words, so are your words interpreted differently from the average joe. Isn't the recognition of your influence on people the reason you called this blog Danno's "Dangerous" Mind?
Can't you teach life without referencing politics? Can't you break it down to the basic moral building blocks and teach those?
I wasn't gonna say anything, but we're well past the election here. And backing up a few postings, "yes, I think you should make another private blog (invitation only) for this stuff; again, because of the responsibility that goes with your influence, and go to town on that blog."
I can tell people I don't like Macs, and there's no chance they'll interpret as "God hates Macs".
Incidentally, hope you and Jane can make it to my Christmas party--we still cool, make no mistake. *I* hang out with MDH.
No offense to MR, but the video is simple: God loves everyone. Is it a statement in a corrective way toward those religious people who have implied that God is only for those in a certain political party, etc. Sure it is, because they're wrong. The video is just another little piece of the movement going on out there to reclaim Jesus from those who want to own him for their own agendas.
I suppose it would be silly to ask why you care at all.
MR,
I think we've both known for some time that we're about as different as two people can get (religiously, politically, and socially) and remain friends. None of that has changed.
Fran and I have been friends for quite some time. I think that's part of why he cares, and also the fact that the two of us have basically sacrificed everything else in our lives to help get the message of this video out - that God does love everyone.
I appreciate your concern, but I just don't think we're going to see eye-to-eye on this one.
Peace.
I got the God loves everyone thing, never doubted it for a minute. But as a Republican, for someone to say "Republicans don't own God" as if ANYONE did, it's sort of a "have you stopped beating your wife" question. I've never thought I owned God, as a matter of fact, someone who thought they owned God would be ignorant--did this video just call me ignorant for being a Republican. If it did, it's incredibly shortsighted and petty, yet hides behind the "wisdom" that God loves everyone (big breakthrough there). So if you're looking to shape your congregation by political party, I think that's where you're headed with this kind of material. I think it excludes the kind of tolerance that makes people like us friends despite our diversity. Ostrasizing Republicans is as wrong as them telling you that you can't be a Democrat. IMHO. And that being said, on to things more amusing.
When I first saw the video, my first reaction was in line with MR and still is. We all can agree that God loves everyone without reservation. But my concern with the video was it appears one sided, maybe it would have been better received if it had "poked" at the other political parties, at the other presidents who have left us wondering...
I couldn't aggree more with the theme of the video, I just wish it was done with a more balanced approach. I kinda feel that Gungor got a political jab in.
So what about Poland?
Peace!
Hey, I'm sorry if you guys (or anybody else for that matter) is offended by me posting this video on my blog. It was not my intention to offend anyone, anymore than it's probably ever your intention to offend me with some of the things you post on your blogs.
For the record, I have nothing - let me say it again: NOTHING - against Republicans. I am also NOT a Democrat. The only "party" I am a part of is the Way of Jesus - Christianity. However, I do have something against people who imply that to be a Christian one must be a member of a certain political party. At this point in history I don't believe there are too many who make that implication about any party EXCEPT the Republican party. Have you heard of the "Religious Right"?
Granted, the writer of this song may not have needed to mention Republicans. Then again, while you may not need to hear it, maybe there are some who still do.
I will say, I probably didn't even notice it because I for one get really tired of people giving me crap for not being patriotic enough, or for voting for a Democrat, or for thinking Capitalism itself is a rotten system.
Maybe someday this song won't make any sense at all. But during this election year, I think it's worth saying. Does it mean you're ignorant if you're a Republican? No. But it also doesn't mean you're a heathen for not being one. I think that's the only point of that one little piece of this song.
I don't know how long people have been saying "don't talk about religion and politics." So what do we do? Talk about both. It's like a powder keg in here just waiting for something to spark. :D
I see the message and the prejudice you're fighting, Dan, I just wanted to interject another viewpoint on religion and politics.
And I know you're not judgmental, that's why I didn't get it.
heh... at least you know you're not being patronized. :)
I finally watched the video to see what all of the fuss is about. :)
I have to agree with MR that there is a very obvious political slant to the video but I don't think that takes away from it's message. I think the song incorporates some very relevant issues to this election year. Not only does it point out that God loves Republicans but also lesbians, terrorists, presidents...all hot issues right now.
One thing I'm a bit frustrated with is how much i keep hearing abotu how God is not a Republican. I'm not saying this in response to this blog specifically but just in general. My generation is very quick to point out that God isn't a Republican in one breath and in the next breath say that they're going to vote for Obama (or voted, whatever). Without realizing it they are insinuating that God is a Democrat (to someone who doesn't know better, of course). I would not only like to see a more balanced approach to God and politics but I'd like to stop hearing people mention God and politics int he same sentence. Maybe that's not what I'm trying to say. I'm just tired of people trying to put God into a political box (again, not in reference to this blog spicifically).
Obviously, at one time Christianity was associated with being a Republican. That's more than the Democrats can say - whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is up to you to figure out. In my opinion, Christianity shouldn't have anything to do with being a Republican or a Democrat - it shoudl have to do with being a follower of Christ.
I've said this before but I'd be alright with doing away with the word Christian altogether as it stands in American culture right now. It throws up too many red flags. We need a new word - and yes, I can admit that eventually that word will throw up red flags as well. That's just the way the world works when it's full of fallen human beings I'm afraid.
Anyway, there's my two cents and as usual I probably didn't convey my point. I like the video and what it's trying to say because I think it needs to be said but I'd be alright with making it more balanced.
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